Gatekeeper Architect

[Martin]

Here you can debate the Gatekeeper Architect article

[Supreme Comander JAF]

Nice we can use a skilled architect and designer. And I see a nice conflict between the two related caracters. J.

[Thomas]

Oh yes there is indeed a conflict! :) His sister is very much open about her origins.
I also look forward to the conflicts created by the scientist being deeply religious.

[Supreme Comander JAF]

A religoius scentist? How unlogical if you ask our vulcan friends. J.

[Thomas]

They probably would, but it's not - really! ;) I'm not religious myself but I see NO conflict in this. But a lot of characters in the movie do!

[Supreme Comander JAF]

Well with a risk of upseting our american friends on this mater. Bealiving in a religion is (weather or not its bajoran, christian or whatewer) is very much a matter of bealiving and bealiving in something that cant be clearly seen or messured by any science methods (even do some scentist have and will try to do so). So the more you now about science and science methods the harder it must be to bealive in something that theese very foundamental methods cant meassure. Thats is why I find it hard for a scientist to bealive in a realigion. But humans could be very unlogical sometimes. (And theese are just my opinions on theese matters so please dont kill me). J.

[Thomas]

Not at all, Commander! It is perfectly OK to practice the scientific method in one's work, and just "believe" when it comes to the bigger questions in life - which no one can claim to prove either way anyways. It is only when you confuse the two OR interpret the bible literary that you get a problem - but most Christians don't! ;) So the two can co-exist!

[Supreme Comander JAF]

But you miss my point here thomas! How can a scientist just throw theyre normal work behavior overboard when it cames to religion? Why not use the same sort of thinking in his or hers work also? Whats so different with religion that makes us throw all normal "rules" of how to explore the unknown overboard? Is it because the promesis of after life is so great or what? Maybe a movie topic. he he. J.

[Thomas]

But you miss my point here thomas! How can a scientist just throw theyre normal work behavior overboard when it cames to religion? Why not use the same sort of thinking in his or hers work also? Whats so different with religion that makes us throw all normal "rules" of how to explore the unknown overboard? Is it because the promesis of after life is so great or what? Maybe a movie topic. he he. J.

There are parts of our existence that will never be answered. This is where the scientific method cannot be applied and where you are left to believe or not.

You are confusing facts and beliefs, Commander. We can all agree that rules of the scientific method must be applied to anything claiming to be a fact - but this is not the case for a belief - or it would be a fact. You get what I'm saying? ;)

You and I do not believe in religion and dogmas - but we cannot claim to know anything about how matter started to exist from nothing (neither do we feel a God makes it easier to explain). We can offer possibilities - and that would be theories, and we can state that we feel certain it happened so and so - and that would be a belief. Never, can we claim it to be a fact, Commander. Not the bigger questions in life.

Our character is a scientist, and so he uses the scientific method to document his new findings. As for the bigger questions in life he believe it all created by a God. But he does not claim this to be a fact. There is no conflict - other than the ones that most certainly will be created by others at the Gatekeeper station.

[Supreme Comander JAF]

I got you thomas. But when we are kids we bealive in many things. Santa claus and ghosts under the bed and mr sandman or whatever. As the times goes by we stop to bealive in most of thoose things. Some easier than others. I dont say that there cant be something like a good or afterlife only that I find it hard to have faith in something that I cant see, measure or explore. I simply dont know and there is no way of getting an correct answer before you die (or if good stands in front of me but that is very unlikely to say the least). In my opinion, if youre an scientist that explores all the wounders of the world every day at work you must sooner or later reach a point were you cant bealive in something that is all about bealiving. But that is my opinion and I am sure that a bunch of priests will have an never ending monolouge about this and that there is in fact hard facts and proof about this bla bla bla. But in the end it all came dome to bealive, doesnt it? So I am not sure, it might be a good or an afterlife or bajoran profets or whatever but I cant find any sort of proof telling me the truth in this matter. J.

[Thomas]

In my opinion, if youre an scientist that explores all the wounders of the world every day at work you must sooner or later reach a point were you cant bealive in something that is all about bealiving. But that is my opinion and I am sure that a bunch of priests will have an never ending monolouge about this and that there is in fact hard facts and proof about this bla bla bla. But in the end it all came dome to bealive, doesnt it?

It does, and we all believe in things that cannot be proven, Commander! This is not special for religious people. Several of the theories you take for granted are still just theories. You cannot tell yourself that; "As it can't be proven I have no opinions on the matter!" You either believe it is true or you believe it is false - and they are both beliefs (no more than the other).

So I am not sure, it might be a God or an afterlife or bajoran profets or whatever but I cant find any sort of proof telling me the truth in this matter. J.

I'm sorry but you still keep mixing the two together. You believe there is no God and so you thing you have no beliefs. But you do. You believe there is no God. You would argue that you can't proof a negative, and that it's up to religious people to get the proof. You are right - but only if we talk about facts. We don't! We talk about beliefs!

[Supreme Comander JAF]

Hold it right there thomas! I didnt said I bealived in its no god! I said I dont know weather or not its a god! And thats is millions of light years from bealiving its no god! If you bealive its no god youre an askit (or whatever its called) and you bealive. You bealive its no god and thats as much a religion as christian, bajoran prophets or any other! I have lost faith in bealiving and dont see enough clue for any kind of religion untill more evidence is aviable. As a matter of fact I dont bealive in star trek either. Its the worlds best tv show and a nice vision off one possible future but thats all it is. I can only hope that the creation of star trek make other people work towards that future because its a good one. But we better stop this debate before it turns into a stockholm trekkers debate... (You know what I mean, dont you?)

To get back to the point: This makes for some wery interresting drama in the movie indeed! Could a scientist be religous? I love drama and religuos ones tends to hit straight into humans souls... J.

[Thomas]

>Hold it right there thomas!

*Thomas gripping his chokolate bar with nuts very tight*

>I didnt said I bealived in its no god! I said...aso

My point is still; yes! One can believe in both science and God at the same time. :) When the questions get too big for the scientific method - beliefs take over. However - this doesn't meen that there isn't strange religious theories that isn't in conflict with science.

>But we better stop this debate before it turns into a stockholm trekkers debate... (You know what I mean, dont you?)

I know what you mean, and that will never happen! :) Feel free to air any opinion you want on this forum, Commander. You will always be met with a calm response (unless you break the TN Prime Directive - adopted by 4Fathers). :) And let it be said that Stockholm Trekkers has several wonderful diplomats, like Stefan Åkesson, so it's important not to brand any organisation in a negative way! :) I'm sure you agree! We look very much forward to cooperating with Stockholm trekkers members in the future.

>To get back to the point: This makes for some very interesting drama in the movie indeed! Could a scientist be religious? I love drama and religious ones tends to hit straight into humans souls... J

We will have a lot of fun with this - yes. But our motive will have to be to show that a religion does not have to be excluding or intolerant, and that it can indeed co-exist with science.

[Supreme Comander JAF]

Thomas! A religion that arent excluding? Is there such an animal? As I see it the very foundation of an religion lies in its we and them concept. Either youre a bealiver and then youre in or youre not a bealiver and then youre out. How far out depends on how wide opened and understanding the belivers are but youre still out - excluded from the society of belivers. J.

[Supreme Comander JAF]

I dont mean any harm to any of stockholm trekkers members by saying its going to be a "stockholm trekkers debate" Its just a way to describe a very very very long and very very very hot debate over a subject (most likely related to god and heaven). In fact I am a member of that society my self... J.

[Thomas]

Thomas! A religion that arent excluding? Is there such an animal? As I see it the very foundation of an religion lies in its we and them concept. Either youre a bealiver and then youre in or youre not a bealiver and then youre out. How far out depends on how wide opened and understanding the belivers are but youre still out - excluded from the society of belivers. J.

I believe there is a difference in how religion is practised by the church and by private people. :)

But we should be careful not to make this thread a debate about religion! :) We can continue in the social chat though! ;)

[Thomas]

I have recieved two mail asking about the building shown in the artickle about our new architect. These are the buildings used in the Teaser sequens. They are my designs but will be built in 3D by our architect. She will however also design her own stuff! :)

[Supreme Comander JAF]

If she got a lack of inspiration call me, he he. Buildings arent my strongest part but I maight have some ideas that can be used. Especially if you specifiy what kind of buildings or rooms you want. Its always easier to be creative when you have distinct framework to work within. J.

[Thomas]

That is true, Commander. We'll post a long list sometime in the future. The CGO and Concept guys have recieved their tasks allready! :)

Feel free to send any sketches you like as well. We do hold a very high level on the visual side, but any type of sketches can easily get the ideas flowing so do not bother about quality.

[Jos]

I remember one famopus scientist saying this some years ago: "Scientists study the world, and climb the mountain of knowledge. But when they come to the top, they see that the priests has been sitting there for centuries already."
To me, it says that a scientist can be both religious and a scientist at the same time. As for me, I am a christian, but I also know that science has made the world easier to understand. Also, scientists has made it easier for met to communicate with others. . .Just think of the Computer, and all that you can do. . . Forums, IRC chat, messengers. . . And more. . . And if I remember correctly, was the creators of the computer also very deeply religious people. . .I'm talking about Mrs Lovelace and her father now.

[Supreme Comander JAF]

Priests have been sitting on a mountain top? Aha that explains a lot... :-) Thankyou for filling in that part... :-) J. (Just a little joke here, he he).